Come, Let Us Reason Together…

Finally, perhaps a dialogue as opposed to a monologue… first I’d like to say, I’m not offended at all by what other people think and/or believe and thank you very much for commenting… and I welcome the opportunity to discuss varying view points…. so please post again… but also I want to express, I do not intend nor do I have any authority over anyone else on these issues!

A couple of verses immediately pop into my mind… the first I referenced in the title of this post… “Come let us reason together” from Isaiah 1:18 and even clearer is 1 John 5:13, “These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know …” and verse 20, “And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true…”

The idea with these verses is that we can “know” and we can “reason”. I love it when someone says I only have ‘blind’ faith… that’s just not true, I really think about these things… but in ALL cases I look to Scripture and to Scripture only for the answers.

A (much welcomed) visitor posted the following:

I hope this does not offend anyone, but we do know what Gods best is in ALL cases of sickness. It’s healing. Isa 53: 4-5 tells us that Jesus bore sickness and disease for us so that we could come to him and receive what he died for- Healing, health and redemption from the curse that Adam brought on this earth. The only glory God gets out of sickness is when we are healed of it. Under the New covenant or New Testament, we see the will of God in the life of Jesus. He healed all who were oppressed by the devil. (Acts 10: 38.) John 14: 9 and Hebrews 1: 1-3 tells us that Jesus was the express image of God. If you view God through the Old Testament only, you get an incomplete picture of God. Jesus came to reveal the completeness of God and demonstrated it with his lifestyle. Where ever he went, he healed the sick. So, today, the will of God is to heal ALL who are sick. Most everyone knows God heals, the problem is, they do not know if he will heal them! There is where the problem lies. But to say that God uses sickness to get Glory is inaccurate.

When I say, I look toward Scripture the translation I look at is important… I use the New American Standard 1995 Update Bible. This particular translation was derived from the orginal languages and is one of the truest in the sense of word meaning and usage. Additionally, it notes where there are differences between early manuscripts and sometimes that can be informative. There is also no paraphrasing in the NASB. I choose not to use a paraphrased Bible because I think God (the inventor of language) knew perfectly well what He intended to say and very carefully chose the words He used in breathing the Bible.

Point 1: I’d like to address the exact words God chose to use in the referenced verses.

Isaiah 53:4-5 says in full text,

4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

(Reference New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (Is 53:4-5). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.)

As you can see it doesn’t say anything about sickness and disease, nor does it say anything about coming to Him for healing. It says that “by His scourging we are healed.” Simply means we are (not ‘will be’, rather active voice here) healed because he took the punishment for us (the “chastening for our well-being”).

Letting Scripture interpret Scripture see also 1 Peter 2:24, “and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.”

Point 2: “The only glory God gets out of sickness is when we are healed of it.” I take issue with this statement because that limits God. I think God gets glory a lot of ways from sickness. Literally, I am extremely hard of hearing. I’ve asked for God to heal my ears, but so far the answer has been, “No.” And, I can give Him ALL glory for NOT healing me…. Romans 8:28, “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” The next verse goes on to tell us exactly what that purpose is… “For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren.”

The word “ALL” in verse 28 is all inclusive, nothing is left out… including my hearing… you bet, I can thank God and praise Him for my hearing exactly the way it is… because obviously (since God can’t lie) he intended my hearing to work for good… whose?…. Mine

Just by those words I’ve posted in the previous sentence… I’ve given God glory… in the middle of being less than perfectly healthy… I also have numerous other health issues… I’m diabetic… I was legally blind for 17 years (that one God did chose to heal … But there’s a couple of other points as well…

First of all… sometimes God has to take us to the bottom of the barrel before we’ll look to Him… that’s unfortunate but true… I myself was pretty stubborn about accepting Jesus as Lord of my life… and sometimes sickness is a result of sin…. that’s consequences, which though God loves ALL of us, He does frequently let us suffer consequences… on this note though I do agree in part to what you said, perhaps (because I do not know God’s full and complete will) it is God’s perfect will that we be 100% healed… but we make choices that keep that from happening.

Secondly, (and I can’t think of the verse’s reference this moment) my being sick enables me to be sympathetic to others being sick… If I’ve never been ill how can I help you when you are ill. For one thing, it gives me an opportunity to “let my light shine before men” in doctor’s offices

Yes, I do agree that Jesus was the express image of God, and is in fact God. I’m not sure why you think I look at Christ only through the Old Testament… please post more on this… but I don’t… and yes I agree God does indeed heal… in fact… I had an opportunity in 1972 to apply James 5:14, “Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord”.

My then 3 month old daughter was running a very high temperature. I couldn’t get it down. I even tried (the old fashioned… now) alcohol bath… nothing was working… my husband was overseas… I took her to the emergency room… all alone… my first born and only child (at that point)… the doctors ran a ton of tests, finally they did a spinal tap… they came back to me and said we were lucky paralysis hadn’t set in yet… she was diagnosed with spinal meningitis… I immediately called my pastor… he came with a couple of deacons.. they prayed over her and annoited her with oil… I then asked the doctors to do another test… they did… they said they must have made a mistake her spinal fluid was fine…. they didn’t make a mistake… God healed my daughter right then and right there.

Point 3: You said, “Where ever He went, He healed the sick.” Yes He did, but the express reason for the miracles Jesus did was to prove He was the promised Christ. In fact, the Old Testament (Isa 35:5) predicted He’d do exactly this. But, the signs were the way people would know He really is the Christ.

Point 4: and I promise my last… while Jesus walked the earth he also raised the dead. He did this on more than one occasion. It is God’s expressed will that “none should perish”… but we do all die… and will continue to do so until Christ retrieves us to Himself… but, He doesn’t raise the dead anymore… but praises… He does still heal

Prayer’s Affects

Today on CNN.com I saw a story titled: “Study: Prayer doesn’t affect heart patients”… basically, the title says it all… Some “scientists” decided to run a test on 1,800 patients to see whether or not prayer had any affect on the patient’s recovery from heart bypass surgery.

The first thing I want to point out about this is that it was a “test” of God… Guess what God says about that?

“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.” Deuteronomy 6:16.

I’d say these folks probably didn’t start out on the right foot. This is really almost laughable if it wasn’t so truly sad. They set out to test God. God!

Secondly, this so-called “study” had three groups:

1. Those who knew they were being prayed for,
2. Those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possiblity, and
3. Those who weren’t prayed for but were told it was a possibility.

What about a fourth group: Those who weren’t prayed for and knew it would be an impossibility? Why weren’t they included? Maybe the scientist were afraid it would shew the results?

So… Who do you think won? …. According to the article… there was “no affect”…. The implication is that the only answer God could possible give for prayers to work is in the affirmative… do you realize that would mean that God… The All-Powerful God Almighty, non-created, always IS God… would have to do what wee little people (you know… people who die and turn back into dust) tell Him to do in order for Him to be considered as having answered… that is RIDICULOUS!!! Guess what… He can choose NOT to answer or He can choose to say NO!

People… this is HIS plan going on here… not ours… He does NOT have to obey US… He IS the creator we are the created… do you get that? I certainly do!
Perhaps what we don’t know is that it was actually “the appointed time” (to die) for all 1,800 of these patients and because of all the prayer God allowed them to live… and “they” say there was no affect; go figure.

Bottom line… many people have long ago lost their respect and awe of God and walk carelessly where angels fear to tread. But be not deceived; God is not mocked! (Galations 6:7).

God does answer prayer… He answers mine every single day… sometimes the answer is “Wait, Child.”… sometimes it’s, “No, Dear that will harm you.”…. and sometimes the answer is… “Yes, because I love you!”… No matter the answer, my Glorious Lord gives me in response to my prayers… I’ll continue to ask… because… He’s my Father… He loves me… I see only a little… He sees it all…

O God, thou art my God; earnestly will I seek thee: My soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee, In a dry and weary land, where no water is. So have I looked upon thee in the sanctuary, To see thy power and thy glory. Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, My lips shall praise thee. So will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name. My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness; And my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips; When I remember thee upon my bed, And meditate on thee in the night-watches. For thou hast been my help, And in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice. My soul followeth hard after thee: Thy right hand upholdeth me.

Psalm 63:1-8

A God by Force?

IF God exists and is an ALL POWERFUL being, which do you think He prefers… human beings with “freedom to choose” or “love by force”? Let’s start on a smaller scale. Which would YOU prefer?

When I was in college I actually did make a computer say the words, “I love you.” What did that mean? Ladies and gentlemen, that meant absolutely nothing! Yet my wonderful husband doesn’t even have to say those same three little words (but I love it when he does and it means a great deal.

If you and I feel that way, then what do you think God in heaven prefers? Did you know: He’s got angels around Him that sing, all day and night without ceasing, “Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God, The Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.”

If we continue logically, the next question would be along the lines of: If God gave us free will to choose, don’t you think He might have done that so we could freely choose Him?

I don’t know you, your circumstances on this planet, or your religious beliefs. But, if there IS a God who IS almighty, and He created us, He certainly wants us to love Him and HIM alone by our free choice. Not because another person forced us.

If you really think about this, you’ll probably also come to the realization that no one can force another to love; they may be able to make someone say the words, but not to feel them.

Do you think God needs you or I to say “I love you”? I don’t think God needs either one of us at all. Well, maybe He needs you, but He certainly doesn’t need me. There is not one single thing I can do for God that He can’t get some where or some way else; After all, He IS God! The beauty of it all is, He WANTS you, me, us to love Him! That’s why He created us!

You Wanted a Sign?

Remember those cool billboards bearing “messages from God”? They used to be all over. I don’t get to travel around as much as I used to and so I don’t get to see them any more. The one-liners were definitely thought provoking and would make my day whenever I had the opportunity to see one. A while back I found the following in a Reader’s Digest magazine (only saved the one page) attributed to Tom Kuntz in New York Times. (The last one slays me.)

Each message was signed “God”.
- Let’s meet at my house Sunday before the game.
- Loved the wedding. Invite me to the marriage.
- Will the road you’re on get you to my place?
- That “love thy neighbor” thing – I meant it.
- Do you have any idea where you’re going?
- Need a marriage counselor? I’m available.
- Follow me.
- Keep using my name in vain, I’ll make rush hour longer.
- I don’t question your existence.
- What part of “thou shalt not” didn’t you understand?
- I love you… I love you… I love you.
- We need to talk.
- Don’t make me come down there.

Some may find these impudent or irreverent, but I don’t think there’s any disrespect in what the author of those billboards was trying to communicate.

Tell me, what did you think as you read them?

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